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	<title>Comments on: Sexual bullying is not okay, even when it&#8217;s your sister</title>
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	<link>http://karenrayne.com/2010/01/12/sexual-bullying-is-not-okay-even-when-its-your-sister/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: bud2400</title>
		<link>http://karenrayne.com/2010/01/12/sexual-bullying-is-not-okay-even-when-its-your-sister/comment-page-1/#comment-5605</link>
		<dc:creator>bud2400</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 May 2010 00:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenrayne.com/?p=771#comment-5605</guid>
		<description>At one point she decided that the risk of screwing around and being a slut was worth the carnal pleasure it would bring her.

Maybe she still thinks that, maybe she's changed her mind after this incident. Either way, what happened hopefully teaches a valuable lesson to her and kids like her. Sex is a risky activity, for more than one reason, and whether what happens in the bedroom stays in the bedroom or not is largely out of your control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At one point she decided that the risk of screwing around and being a slut was worth the carnal pleasure it would bring her.</p>
<p>Maybe she still thinks that, maybe she&#8217;s changed her mind after this incident. Either way, what happened hopefully teaches a valuable lesson to her and kids like her. Sex is a risky activity, for more than one reason, and whether what happens in the bedroom stays in the bedroom or not is largely out of your control.</p>
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		<title>By: Gina-Nicole</title>
		<link>http://karenrayne.com/2010/01/12/sexual-bullying-is-not-okay-even-when-its-your-sister/comment-page-1/#comment-5505</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina-Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2010 06:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenrayne.com/?p=771#comment-5505</guid>
		<description>Hi Karen. I am impressed by the depth and intelligence of your assessment of Chris and Katie's situation. Your compassion towards Katie is a rare reaction to what I've seen on other sites regarding the upload.

Are you an only child? Ever know the feeling of being thrown under the bus by a vengeful sibling? I have three siblings, all older. I know the feeling of being called out over something and being left vulnerable to parents' scorn (I'm Asian too so I know how bad and strict punishments can get). I'm trying to get you to understand what it's like to be 'thrown under the bus.' I empathized with Chris' situation. His reaction was extreme but, at his age, I really don't think he understands the deep repercussions of what he did to his sister.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Karen. I am impressed by the depth and intelligence of your assessment of Chris and Katie&#8217;s situation. Your compassion towards Katie is a rare reaction to what I&#8217;ve seen on other sites regarding the upload.</p>
<p>Are you an only child? Ever know the feeling of being thrown under the bus by a vengeful sibling? I have three siblings, all older. I know the feeling of being called out over something and being left vulnerable to parents&#8217; scorn (I&#8217;m Asian too so I know how bad and strict punishments can get). I&#8217;m trying to get you to understand what it&#8217;s like to be &#8216;thrown under the bus.&#8217; I empathized with Chris&#8217; situation. His reaction was extreme but, at his age, I really don&#8217;t think he understands the deep repercussions of what he did to his sister.</p>
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		<title>By: karenrayne</title>
		<link>http://karenrayne.com/2010/01/12/sexual-bullying-is-not-okay-even-when-its-your-sister/comment-page-1/#comment-5408</link>
		<dc:creator>karenrayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenrayne.com/?p=771#comment-5408</guid>
		<description>Bah, thank you for your comment.  This post was meant to be directed at Katie's brother - not at Katie.  So you're right, I didn't address Katie's behavior much at all.  I could, and now I might, write a whole other post on Katie.

My rebuke of Katie would not be nearly as strong as yours - because we don't really know the circumstances of Katie's connection with these young men.  We know that she is looking for a mutual connection - both giving and receiving pleasure - from a number of young men.  But we don't know her actual age (very different response if she's twelve versus nineteen), and we don't know how the young men actually feel about these connections.  You guess that they feel hurt and discarded, but we have no evidence of that and no way to actually know.

So the only thing we really know about Katie is that she is interested in engaging in sexual behavior with a list of young men, that she has engaged in sexual behavior with some of those young, and that she's written it all down.

If I could sit Katie down and have a conversation with her, there are a lot of questions I would ask.  But a rebuke of her without more information is both judgmental and probably mis-aimed.

Indeed, rebuking most sexual activity of young people, even with full information, is often a waste of energy and attention.  Sex and sexuality are moral choices - and as much as adults may want to make those choices for teenagers, it isn't possible.  A much more effective approach is a conversation where the young person talks about their perspective with the kind, listening ear of an adult.  Allowing the teenager to come to his or her own moral standpoint without being pushed there is a far more effective approach to help them come to a place of healthy sexual expression.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bah, thank you for your comment.  This post was meant to be directed at Katie&#8217;s brother - not at Katie.  So you&#8217;re right, I didn&#8217;t address Katie&#8217;s behavior much at all.  I could, and now I might, write a whole other post on Katie.</p>
<p>My rebuke of Katie would not be nearly as strong as yours - because we don&#8217;t really know the circumstances of Katie&#8217;s connection with these young men.  We know that she is looking for a mutual connection - both giving and receiving pleasure - from a number of young men.  But we don&#8217;t know her actual age (very different response if she&#8217;s twelve versus nineteen), and we don&#8217;t know how the young men actually feel about these connections.  You guess that they feel hurt and discarded, but we have no evidence of that and no way to actually know.</p>
<p>So the only thing we really know about Katie is that she is interested in engaging in sexual behavior with a list of young men, that she has engaged in sexual behavior with some of those young, and that she&#8217;s written it all down.</p>
<p>If I could sit Katie down and have a conversation with her, there are a lot of questions I would ask.  But a rebuke of her without more information is both judgmental and probably mis-aimed.</p>
<p>Indeed, rebuking most sexual activity of young people, even with full information, is often a waste of energy and attention.  Sex and sexuality are moral choices - and as much as adults may want to make those choices for teenagers, it isn&#8217;t possible.  A much more effective approach is a conversation where the young person talks about their perspective with the kind, listening ear of an adult.  Allowing the teenager to come to his or her own moral standpoint without being pushed there is a far more effective approach to help them come to a place of healthy sexual expression.</p>
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		<title>By: bah2501</title>
		<link>http://karenrayne.com/2010/01/12/sexual-bullying-is-not-okay-even-when-its-your-sister/comment-page-1/#comment-5371</link>
		<dc:creator>bah2501</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 21:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenrayne.com/?p=771#comment-5371</guid>
		<description>I feel your post is so strongly anti-bullying that it disregards and downplays the horribleness of Katie's behavior.  When you do this, you may create a backlash from and alienate readers who might otherwise sympathize with the gist of your argument if not for the overall skewed view of the situation you are trying to create.  

As far as I can tell, you only reluctantly rebuke Katie, as gently as possible, saying she's "too young" to engage in this behavior, and that her view of sexuality does not include a "deep connection.  FIRST of all, is someone EVER old enough to treat boys like meat, collecting their "v-cards" like trophies?  Maybe publishing this list is sexual bullying, as you suggest, but no more so, in fact much less so, than the underlying events, ie Katie planning in advance to use them with no intention of being faithful or considerate of their feelings.  Whether it's okay to sleep with someone and then trample on their heart and desert them is not a matter of how old the perpetrator is.  

Your reader, Ruth, feels that in our society women are punished for "overt and healthy" sexuality.  There is nothing healthy about what Katie did here to these boys.  Katie's cavalier attitude towards sex is not only unhealthy, it is cruel.  

Anyways, I totally agree with all your points about Katie needing help.  While I feel that Katie's behavior was worse than her brother's (unless he does indeed have a legitimate alcohol problem and we have no evidence of that), I also agree that he should have been the bigger person and not subjected his sister to revenge.  I just feel alienated when your post creates this unrealistic impression of the hurtful consequences of Katie's chosen lifestyle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel your post is so strongly anti-bullying that it disregards and downplays the horribleness of Katie&#8217;s behavior.  When you do this, you may create a backlash from and alienate readers who might otherwise sympathize with the gist of your argument if not for the overall skewed view of the situation you are trying to create.  </p>
<p>As far as I can tell, you only reluctantly rebuke Katie, as gently as possible, saying she&#8217;s &#8220;too young&#8221; to engage in this behavior, and that her view of sexuality does not include a &#8220;deep connection.  FIRST of all, is someone EVER old enough to treat boys like meat, collecting their &#8220;v-cards&#8221; like trophies?  Maybe publishing this list is sexual bullying, as you suggest, but no more so, in fact much less so, than the underlying events, ie Katie planning in advance to use them with no intention of being faithful or considerate of their feelings.  Whether it&#8217;s okay to sleep with someone and then trample on their heart and desert them is not a matter of how old the perpetrator is.  </p>
<p>Your reader, Ruth, feels that in our society women are punished for &#8220;overt and healthy&#8221; sexuality.  There is nothing healthy about what Katie did here to these boys.  Katie&#8217;s cavalier attitude towards sex is not only unhealthy, it is cruel.  </p>
<p>Anyways, I totally agree with all your points about Katie needing help.  While I feel that Katie&#8217;s behavior was worse than her brother&#8217;s (unless he does indeed have a legitimate alcohol problem and we have no evidence of that), I also agree that he should have been the bigger person and not subjected his sister to revenge.  I just feel alienated when your post creates this unrealistic impression of the hurtful consequences of Katie&#8217;s chosen lifestyle.</p>
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		<title>By: karenrayne</title>
		<link>http://karenrayne.com/2010/01/12/sexual-bullying-is-not-okay-even-when-its-your-sister/comment-page-1/#comment-5352</link>
		<dc:creator>karenrayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenrayne.com/?p=771#comment-5352</guid>
		<description>I disagree, Truth.  For many people writing things down helps them clarify and understand their own desires more fully.  And hiding beer can - although we have no way of knowing whether it was in this case - indicate addition to alcohol, which does suggest a need to reach out for help.

But regardless of our opinions of Katie's behavior, her brother's reaction went way, way beyond what she did.  This has the potential to be a life-defining event for Katie, forever influencing her trust in other people, how people treat her, her comfort with her own sexuality, and many other aspects of her life forever.  Being grounded?  Even for a long, long, long time?  Annoying, obnoxious, totally uncalled for even, but not life-changing.  Katie's brother hurt Katie on a deep, internal level.  It was the wrong thing to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree, Truth.  For many people writing things down helps them clarify and understand their own desires more fully.  And hiding beer can - although we have no way of knowing whether it was in this case - indicate addition to alcohol, which does suggest a need to reach out for help.</p>
<p>But regardless of our opinions of Katie&#8217;s behavior, her brother&#8217;s reaction went way, way beyond what she did.  This has the potential to be a life-defining event for Katie, forever influencing her trust in other people, how people treat her, her comfort with her own sexuality, and many other aspects of her life forever.  Being grounded?  Even for a long, long, long time?  Annoying, obnoxious, totally uncalled for even, but not life-changing.  Katie&#8217;s brother hurt Katie on a deep, internal level.  It was the wrong thing to do.</p>
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		<title>By: The truth</title>
		<link>http://karenrayne.com/2010/01/12/sexual-bullying-is-not-okay-even-when-its-your-sister/comment-page-1/#comment-5351</link>
		<dc:creator>The truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenrayne.com/?p=771#comment-5351</guid>
		<description>Look, if you dont want that someone finds out something about your personal life, just dont write it down. If you dont want someone to mess up your life, dont get in their way of hidding beer.

If you dont mess with other people, other people wont mess with you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, if you dont want that someone finds out something about your personal life, just dont write it down. If you dont want someone to mess up your life, dont get in their way of hidding beer.</p>
<p>If you dont mess with other people, other people wont mess with you</p>
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		<title>By: Daddy Claxton</title>
		<link>http://karenrayne.com/2010/01/12/sexual-bullying-is-not-okay-even-when-its-your-sister/comment-page-1/#comment-5330</link>
		<dc:creator>Daddy Claxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenrayne.com/?p=771#comment-5330</guid>
		<description>Karen, thank you for posting this topic and discussing it, regardless of whether it's a hoax or the real deal.  Two weeks ago we found out a 17 yo boy has been writing my then 12, now 13 yo daughter bad stuff on MySpace since November while she's been here in our house, but mostly while at her mother's.  The police are investigating our matter and are getting subpoenas. After talking with a friend of mine in the Secret Service, he says that MySpace is very good about trying to find the sources of things like you wrote about.  Perhaps reaching out to FB might be something that needs to be done, too, if you've not already done so.  Your instance and ours points to one very simple fact, we parents have to do a much more thorough job of understanding what our kids are doing on the Internet. As I read what you wrote about Katie, I'm wondering if this won't have a similar affect on my 13-yo-daughter as she now knows Dad knows what some jerk has been writing her since before Thanksgiving. Since you now have my email address, I'd enjoy the opportunity to talk with you further about how we make the Net safer for our kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen, thank you for posting this topic and discussing it, regardless of whether it&#8217;s a hoax or the real deal.  Two weeks ago we found out a 17 yo boy has been writing my then 12, now 13 yo daughter bad stuff on MySpace since November while she&#8217;s been here in our house, but mostly while at her mother&#8217;s.  The police are investigating our matter and are getting subpoenas. After talking with a friend of mine in the Secret Service, he says that MySpace is very good about trying to find the sources of things like you wrote about.  Perhaps reaching out to FB might be something that needs to be done, too, if you&#8217;ve not already done so.  Your instance and ours points to one very simple fact, we parents have to do a much more thorough job of understanding what our kids are doing on the Internet. As I read what you wrote about Katie, I&#8217;m wondering if this won&#8217;t have a similar affect on my 13-yo-daughter as she now knows Dad knows what some jerk has been writing her since before Thanksgiving. Since you now have my email address, I&#8217;d enjoy the opportunity to talk with you further about how we make the Net safer for our kids.</p>
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		<title>By: Laroux99</title>
		<link>http://karenrayne.com/2010/01/12/sexual-bullying-is-not-okay-even-when-its-your-sister/comment-page-1/#comment-5315</link>
		<dc:creator>Laroux99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 00:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenrayne.com/?p=771#comment-5315</guid>
		<description>Facebook does not do enough to remove this sort of bullying. There are some extremely nasty, abusive posts and pages which takes along time for the facebook administrators to remove.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Facebook does not do enough to remove this sort of bullying. There are some extremely nasty, abusive posts and pages which takes along time for the facebook administrators to remove.</p>
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		<title>By: karenrayne</title>
		<link>http://karenrayne.com/2010/01/12/sexual-bullying-is-not-okay-even-when-its-your-sister/comment-page-1/#comment-5310</link>
		<dc:creator>karenrayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenrayne.com/?p=771#comment-5310</guid>
		<description>Oren, I frankly agree.  I e-mailed Snopes about it before I wrote about it, but I still haven't heard back from them.  Beyond your three reasons, I think it's just on the boarder of too outrageous to be true.  The problem is, of course, that there's no real way to find out.  I think the FB posting and commends are probably real - but reality of it all?  Questionable.

I decided to take it seriously because, well, everyone else is.  So regardless of whether Katie exists or not, the story needed to be talked about on the level of it being real.  Because even if Katie and her brother don't exist, the story does, and the general public's reaction to it was unkind and hurtful.  And situations that are similar to this one do happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oren, I frankly agree.  I e-mailed Snopes about it before I wrote about it, but I still haven&#8217;t heard back from them.  Beyond your three reasons, I think it&#8217;s just on the boarder of too outrageous to be true.  The problem is, of course, that there&#8217;s no real way to find out.  I think the FB posting and commends are probably real - but reality of it all?  Questionable.</p>
<p>I decided to take it seriously because, well, everyone else is.  So regardless of whether Katie exists or not, the story needed to be talked about on the level of it being real.  Because even if Katie and her brother don&#8217;t exist, the story does, and the general public&#8217;s reaction to it was unkind and hurtful.  And situations that are similar to this one do happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Oren</title>
		<link>http://karenrayne.com/2010/01/12/sexual-bullying-is-not-okay-even-when-its-your-sister/comment-page-1/#comment-5309</link>
		<dc:creator>Oren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 04:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenrayne.com/?p=771#comment-5309</guid>
		<description>Seriously, does anyone even think this is real?  People are spending WAY to much time analyzing and lamenting over "Katie's" predicament given it is incredibly easy to fake facebook postings...just because someone scanned a handwritten note credence is lent to this "story".  First, the names are just to generic.  Second, though the posting and comments have some slang, there's just not enough, teenagers are not that lucid.  Third, Katie's posting are not desperate enough...if it was me I would be much more desperate in my attempts to get this taken down.  I bet my trust fund we find out in a couple of months this is just another urban legend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously, does anyone even think this is real?  People are spending WAY to much time analyzing and lamenting over &#8220;Katie&#8217;s&#8221; predicament given it is incredibly easy to fake facebook postings&#8230;just because someone scanned a handwritten note credence is lent to this &#8220;story&#8221;.  First, the names are just to generic.  Second, though the posting and comments have some slang, there&#8217;s just not enough, teenagers are not that lucid.  Third, Katie&#8217;s posting are not desperate enough&#8230;if it was me I would be much more desperate in my attempts to get this taken down.  I bet my trust fund we find out in a couple of months this is just another urban legend.</p>
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