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	<title>Comments on: Prudes or caretakers?  Enfranchisement or detachment?</title>
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	<link>http://karenrayne.com/2008/01/14/prudes-or-caretakers-enfranchisement-or-detachment/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 23:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ruth Rinehart</title>
		<link>http://karenrayne.com/2008/01/14/prudes-or-caretakers-enfranchisement-or-detachment/comment-page-1/#comment-1171</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth Rinehart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 04:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenrayne.com/2008/01/14/prudes-or-caretakers-enfranchisement-or-detachment/#comment-1171</guid>
		<description>This post has disturbed me for days, specifically the quote by Caitlin Flanagan, and its been hard to get a handle on why.

First off, the problem with teen pregnancy, I think, is that our culture is so hostile to families.  If we had a village to raise the children, teen pregnancy needn't rob anyone of their teen years. If our culture weren’t so consumer-crazy and materialistic, we would all have more time to spend with each other, outside the competitive rat-race too many are trapped in.

The other piece that I’m reacting to is the idea that our ancestors had a deep commitment to girls.  I think, rather, they had a deep commitment to keeping the upper class in power, and keeping girls virginal till marriage so progeny could be counted on.  There was no commitment to lower class girls, no need to keep them virginal and pristine.

The cultural constructs of monogamy and marriage are tools of the patriarchy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post has disturbed me for days, specifically the quote by Caitlin Flanagan, and its been hard to get a handle on why.</p>
<p>First off, the problem with teen pregnancy, I think, is that our culture is so hostile to families.  If we had a village to raise the children, teen pregnancy needn&#8217;t rob anyone of their teen years. If our culture weren’t so consumer-crazy and materialistic, we would all have more time to spend with each other, outside the competitive rat-race too many are trapped in.</p>
<p>The other piece that I’m reacting to is the idea that our ancestors had a deep commitment to girls.  I think, rather, they had a deep commitment to keeping the upper class in power, and keeping girls virginal till marriage so progeny could be counted on.  There was no commitment to lower class girls, no need to keep them virginal and pristine.</p>
<p>The cultural constructs of monogamy and marriage are tools of the patriarchy.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs. Y</title>
		<link>http://karenrayne.com/2008/01/14/prudes-or-caretakers-enfranchisement-or-detachment/comment-page-1/#comment-998</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs. Y</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 03:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://karenrayne.com/2008/01/14/prudes-or-caretakers-enfranchisement-or-detachment/#comment-998</guid>
		<description>I agree with you about a single standard for boys and girls being way more important to everyone's full enfranchisement than sexual liberation.  But we can't lose sight of the fact that the transition from child to adult depends on the ability to sort through mixed messages.  The Victorian "commitment" to girls was rooted in messages far less mixed than the ones girls get today, but lots of those messages aren't ones you or I can get behind!  The question I'm asking myself is, what can parents do to teach their kids discernment enough to filter out all the crap that's being spewed their way?

I can't answer for Religion per se, but I do see lots of wonderful religious families where kids are getting the reprouctive facts of life along with valuable lessons in personhood (You Are More Than Your Hotness, Just Because Your Hormones Say Yes Does Not Mean They Are In Charge, Having Sex With Someone Is Not Going To Solve Your Other Problems In Life).  Those are stablizing messages for any kid to hear, frankly, religious family or no.

You've probably already read &lt;a&gt;this article about sexuality education and religion&lt;/a&gt;, but I'm putting the link here on the off chance that you have not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you about a single standard for boys and girls being way more important to everyone&#8217;s full enfranchisement than sexual liberation.  But we can&#8217;t lose sight of the fact that the transition from child to adult depends on the ability to sort through mixed messages.  The Victorian &#8220;commitment&#8221; to girls was rooted in messages far less mixed than the ones girls get today, but lots of those messages aren&#8217;t ones you or I can get behind!  The question I&#8217;m asking myself is, what can parents do to teach their kids discernment enough to filter out all the crap that&#8217;s being spewed their way?</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t answer for Religion per se, but I do see lots of wonderful religious families where kids are getting the reprouctive facts of life along with valuable lessons in personhood (You Are More Than Your Hotness, Just Because Your Hormones Say Yes Does Not Mean They Are In Charge, Having Sex With Someone Is Not Going To Solve Your Other Problems In Life).  Those are stablizing messages for any kid to hear, frankly, religious family or no.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve probably already read <a>this article about sexuality education and religion</a>, but I&#8217;m putting the link here on the off chance that you have not.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://karenrayne.com/2008/01/14/prudes-or-caretakers-enfranchisement-or-detachment/comment-page-1/#comment-997</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 02:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>"The full enfranchisement of girls depends on them being treated sexually the same as boys."

Maybe it depends on girls being treated *equally*, but not necessarily the same.  Double standards are not healthy or helpful, but there are still greater potential consequences - pregnancy mainly - for girls than boys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The full enfranchisement of girls depends on them being treated sexually the same as boys.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe it depends on girls being treated *equally*, but not necessarily the same.  Double standards are not healthy or helpful, but there are still greater potential consequences - pregnancy mainly - for girls than boys.</p>
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